In this episode, Hal talks about how Coopersmith & Coopersmith is counseling landlords and commercial tenants during the COVID-19 pandemic. At 2:06, Josh Berger talks about how he built his reputation as a commercial broker when he first entered the industry, how he leads broker training at Norman Bobrow & Company, and how his passion for art and boxing have shown him the necessity for structure and balance within his professional career.

To speak to an attorney at Coopersmith & Coopersmith for a complimentary 15 minute consultation for navigating commercial leasing amid COVID-19 follow this link: https://www.coopersmithandcoopersmith.com/contact/

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Hal Coopersmith: Welcome to Broker’s Angle. I’m Hal Coopersmith. In this episode we talk a little bit about everything that’s going on in the world of commercial real estate due to COVID-19 and our 30 minute or less interview is with Josh Berger of Norman Bobrow & Company. Josh heads up broker training at Norman Bobrow and shares many pearls of wisdom including this. 

Josh Berger: So I want to hear what they have to say because I also think that it’s important to not follow blindly, but to be able to think on your feet and to be able to react and respond in a way that’s natural to you. Because at the end of the day, nobody’s hiring a company to do their lease. They’re hiring a broker that works for that company, and if you don’t know how to be yourself or how to react in a way that’s true to you and genuine to you, it’s going to come across that way. And I don’t think that’s a helpful way. I think genuineness and communication are really crucial in being a good broker and communicating and negotiating an effective deal. 

Hal Coopersmith: But first Broker’s Angle is sponsored by the law firm of Coopersmith and Coopersmith, a boutique real estate law firm practicing in commercial and residential real estate for over 87 years. This of course is attorney advertising, so we are obligated to say prior results do not guarantee a similar outcome and normally we would have my partner Richard chime in here, but we’ve been separated during quarantine and that’s a segue to our current situation. In the world of commercial real estate, everyone can agree that it is a mess out there and no one can predict what this means for the long-term future of real estate. Personally, I am optimistic for the future of New York City and that we have an environment that cannot be replicated anywhere else, but in the immediate term, companies will need to figure out what to do about their leases, both for retail and office space. At Coopersmith & Coopersmith, we’ve been offering complimentary 15 minutes strategy sessions because each situation is different. Whether it is determining how to put PPP funds to work, immediate reductions or abatements in rent, or determining how to exit a space, we’ve been working with landlords and tenants on how to navigate this situation. So if you have a client with a question about the current landscape, please feel free to reach out and we will put our contact information in the show notes. So with that, let’s go to our interview with Josh Berger. So you’ve listened to past episodes and you said that they were a little bit boring, no offense to me or any of the guests, but you wanted to spice things up a little bit. 

Josh Berger: A little bit, a little bit. Brokerage can be a pretty dull situation when you’re looking at the various intricacies of a lease or how to approach things or what a building is worth or how to get to the certain economics. And I like the human side of brokerage. I really liked the interaction with the people, the different situations, the unique angles. And I feel like sometimes that’s a little bit glanced over when people are so focused on the economics, which is obviously important, but there’s a huge human element that I feel is ignored. 

Hal Coopersmith: And so how have you focused on the human element in your business? 

Josh Berger: Sure. So for me, I try to surround myself with good people who are honest people and work with CEOs who respect their teams and respect the people that they work with. It enables a clear line of communication that’s really helpful in terms of establishing and creating a strategy that we can execute that really affects the business. But at the end of the day, the business is made up of people. So if you don’t take that into consideration, all the business strategy could go out the window. 

Hal Coopersmith: And I have to imagine Josh, that some people are listening to this and saying, well I want to work with the wonderful people too, but I want some form of business. How do you get to the good people and, and how have you made the choices to filter out the people that you don’t want to work with? 

Josh Berger: It’s a good question. And I think when you’re starting out in brokerage, you have obviously less of an opportunity to be picky. When I first started in the business, it was knocking on doors, cold calling and things like that. And at that point in my career I had no opportunity to choose who my clients are. Coming from immigrant parents, I didn’t grow up with the people who ran businesses or anything like that, so I had to make it on my own. Over time. That ended up being a big blessing because you develop strong relationships with people and then you start to realize, hey, I want to spend time with these people. I don’t want to spend time with those people. Thankfully when you do good work, people will refer you business and likeminded people tend to travel in similar circles and so I’ve been lucky enough to have a number of clients who’ve referred me to better and better people and you have to be willing at a certain point to walk away if someone does not fit in that category in your mind or in practice. So there’s definitely been some business that I’ve, quote unquote lost. But to me balance is really important. And being that you’re interacting with a client consistently for a very long period of time, given the work, most people are addressing their lease between 12 and 25 months before expiration in this size range that I work with, there’s a lot of time you spend with those people and if you don’t have an opportunity to connect with them in a real way, it can be really exhausting and emotionally draining. And you know, I think mental health is something that’s very important. And so to be able to be with people who you enjoy spending time with, like I am now, it’s a very different opportunity than being forced to just work for the money. 

Hal Coopersmith: What’s been a situation where you walked away? 

Josh Berger: Ooh, situation where I walked away. It happened actually probably a couple of months ago. It was actually through a referral and walking away is an art in and of itself and doing it respectfully cause you don’t want to burn a relationship. And I was introduced to somebody and they said, well, I met with this broker and I met with that broker and whoever gives me the best number, whoever cuts their commission the lowest is going to be the one that I go with and I said, I understand what you’re saying, but I also have value for my own time and I’m not going to do a race to the bottom. I know what my time is worth. I appreciate the opportunity, but it’s not going to be for me now. It didn’t necessarily have to do just with the money. It had to do with the aggressive approach of the person saying do it my way or the highway. I’m about collaboration. I’m about taking ego out of it. Now. Do all CEOs have somewhat of an ego to them? Absolutely, and founders and owners of companies, absolutely, but the question is can they speak with respect and do they treat other people with respect? That’s a very big part of it for me. There are going to be hiccups in any deal. That’s the name of the game I need to be able to work with someone who I can communicate with in a clear way and say, hey, here are the pros, here are the cons. Here’s what we need to address and not have them jump down my throat and start negotiating with me. We work as a team. I don’t want to be negotiating with you. And then negotiating with the other side. 

Hal Coopersmith: And then how did you gracefully exit? 

Josh Berger: I gracefully exited by saying I really appreciate the opportunity. I don’t think this is going to be the right fit given the fact that we might just not be a good personality fit. I can certainly recommend some other people who might be helpful, but I think for this particular situation it could get a little contentious. And that’s not something that I think is beneficial for you. 

Hal Coopersmith: And what attracted you to the business and how did you find your way into commercial leasing? 

Josh Berger: It’s a great, it’s a great question. And I really had no interest in real estate whatsoever. When I was in college. I studied marketing and business administration and I was interviewing at jobs in various marketing companies, and this was in 2008 and 2009 which was not the best time in terms of economics, in terms of the economy rather, or real estate or anything, you know, it was a really tough time. And so I was interviewing at all these marketing places and they kept telling me you could make $120,000 a year. And while to college student, that might sound like a lot of money. I had certain aspirations for myself and I said, if I want to raise a family in the Tristate area, and a little of a comfortable life, it just didn’t seem like a lot of money. And so I kind of hit a dead end. And one of my friends, his brother was working for Norman Barbara, the president of the company, and the namesake. He said, why don’t you go talk to Norman? I said, listen, I don’t know anything about real estate. I’ll go talk to them though. So I went to talk to Norman and everyone was very honest with me upfront and that’s one of the things I really liked and like about him, he said to me, you’re not going to make money for a whole year. Can you afford that? I said, no, I can’t. He said, but if you can make it through the first year and you learn and you grow, the sky’s the limit. So I said, okay. For some reason that was intriguing to me, the limitless potential. So I called my parents and I said to them, hey, in this, don’t forget, side note, they paid for my college and put me through college completely. So hearing that I was considering a full commission job, they were not happy to say the least, not happy. But still supportive. And so what I ended up doing is I ended up moving into their guest room in Teaneck, New Jersey, and they covered my tremendous expenses of a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a New Jersey Transit bus ticket. And I grinded for a year and I was in the office from 7:00 AM left at 8:00 PM and every deal that I worked on fell apart every single one. And so it was very, very challenging. And every two months I would walk into Norman’s office, I don’t understand what am I doing wrong, what am I doing wrong? He said nothing. Just keep going. Every deal you lose, you’re going to learn something from. Fast forward to 2010 and I closed 11 deals and won an award in the company for the most deals closed in one year. And so since then it’s been, it’s been better and better. And thankfully I’ve had a really nice opportunity to grow within the company. Now I’ve taken on a much larger role in terms of interviewing and bringing on brokers. I run a broker development program and it’s been great and I feel very lucky to have a mentor that really cares about the tenants and not having any conflict of interest in terms of representing any landlords, but also someone who owns real estate himself. So we can understand how owners look at real estate, and also his charitable side. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, I certainly want to get to the broker training program, but you certainly brought up a lot and I want to know what did you learn from those deals that were falling apart and how did you get through that? 

Josh Berger: Sure. So a lot of the stuff that I learned was how and when to bring things up in a negotiation, right? So many times I thought, man, I’m so close on this deal and the only thing that’s left to do is security deposit. Now security deposit makes or breaks a deal. And I didn’t know that until, you know, a little bit later on, after a few deals that fell apart, it fell apart because of security. So the way that I learned to kind of combat that is that I brought it up upfront always with my clients. I would sit down with them and I would say before we put an offer in, it’s important to understand that the landlord is only going to be evaluating this deal based on your financial strength. If we cannot put that forward and come to an agreement of what makes sense for a security deposit, we’re not going to be able to make a deal. So to take a look at these companies financials before the process begins, instead of waiting until the end when the landlord brings it up to me. So that’s one thing. Another thing, let’s say for example, a sublet clause, right? So every lease has a sublet clause and I thought to myself, oh, whatever, as long as they have a right to sublease, it’s fine until you go through a situation where you’re representing the subtenant, potential subtenant, and you get to a sublease, you negotiate the whole sublease, you sign it, you know, after they hire you, obviously to negotiate the sublease document. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, I was going to say, I’m very into the sublease clauses. I’m excited to hear what you have to say.

 Josh Berger: Yeah. So this relates strictly to the consent period. Sometimes the landlord will put they have a 60 or 90 day consent period, which to a layman might sound like, oh, it’s just a couple months. Right? But in reality, if you’re a CEO of a company, you’ve now signed a sublease, you’ve gotten everything done and you need to sit holding the bag for 60 days until an overlandlord gives you consent that can have significant impact on your business. Now you certainly lose the deal from a lease standpoint. 

Hal Coopersmith: That’s certainly something that we look at. If brokers aren’t on the ball like you.

 Josh Berger: Right. And that’s why it’s so important obviously for brokers to have partners on the law side who can look at these things. Because I know a lot of brokers who don’t feel that it’s their duty to do this part of the deal that they say, well the attorney’s going to do it. Well in that case, that’s fine. Just make sure you have a good attorney. Otherwise things slip through the cracks or fall by the wayside. And just in my experience with consent landlords, most lenders will take every single day of their 30 days. I had a situation last year, not last year, but four years ago, where we had a great relationship with the landlord, and they said to us, we’re not recapturing, we’re not recapturing, we’re not recapturing on day 29 in our 23 of 24 hours, they recaptured the space and they called us, they said we’re so sorry, but we’ve got a tenant who wants to take the whole building. So recapture and consent period are absolutely crucial. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, yeah, that’s certainly the time to, to market the space and that’s why that matters. And you certainly mentioned that you took a lot of lumps in the beginning. Now you’re starting this broker training program. What have you learned that you’re incorporating to the broker training program and what does that mean for you and your company? 

Josh Berger: Sure. So a lot of what I talk about with the younger brokers or the newer brokers is the importance of communicating clearly. And also about looking at every angle or the deal. It’s easy to kind of say, hey, this is the base rate, but there are a lot of other things that can really affect a deal and so what I make sure that they go through is understanding the business implications of the various parts of a deal and that the most leverage you have is in the beginning of a deal and if you don’t use that opportunity, you could end up trying to renegotiate later on, which is not a great look. Also, just to help them understand order of operations from when you presented a space to a tenant through showing them negotiating, getting the lease done, so on and so forth. There are a lot of things that can go wrong and the devil is in the details, so if you don’t understand what that process is and how to do it properly, it can really be challenging. Some of the other things that we touch on or how to handle objections, right? How to negotiate properly. We do a lot of role playing, right? I’m not one to sit there and pontificate about how this is the right way to do things. First of all, any way that I’ve learned has been through my experience, but also through mentors and teachers and other brokers that I’ve had interactions with that I’ve learned from. So I want to hear what they have to say because I also think that it’s important to not follow blindly, but to be able to think on your feet and to be able to react and respond in a way that’s natural to you. Because at the end of the day, nobody’s hiring a company to do their lease. They’re hiring a broker that works for that company, and if you don’t know how to be yourself or how to react in a way that’s true to you and genuine to you, it’s going to come across that way. And I don’t think that’s a helpful way. I think genuineness and communication are really crucial in being a good broker and communicating and negotiating an effective deal. 

Hal Coopersmith: What are some common mistakes that brokers are making? 

Josh Berger: Common mistakes that brokers make, let’s say either being too pushy or not pushy enough. You know where a broker kind of is too brisk or curt with their communication because they want to get something done. Not understanding that the person that they’re communicating with on the other side has their own things to deal with. And I’ll give you an example. You’re waiting to hear back from HR on something to do with headcount or something to do with the space layout as you’re negotiating, right? Whether it comes to a test fit or whatever it might be in terms of laying out the space. And it’s now been two weeks since you heard back from HR and you were getting really frustrated. So a mistake could be sending a very strongly worded email saying, it’s been two weeks. I need to get this done. If we don’t get this done, we’re going to lose the deal right now. While that gets the information across, it’s not helpful. And understanding that this person in HR might’ve been on vacation for a week. They may have had a huge hiring spree, which a lot of times we deal with because we help companies when they’re expanding and they haven’t had time to deal with it. So a more effective way to kind of frame that would be. I know that we’re all trying to get this done in a timely manner. Have you had a chance to look at the headcount yet? Let’s see if we can schedule a call for X or Y, present two times so that we can move forward, present a solution, not just a problem. 

Hal Coopersmith: In addition to training brokers, how do you organize yourself to be successful? 

Josh Berger: A big part of it for me it has to do with discipline with schedule. I do have a lot going on in my life that’s outside of brokerage. I box, I paint. I put together charity art shows and all these different things and people often say to me, how do you have time to do everything? And the answer is that I’m extremely disciplined and rigid when it comes to my schedule every morning when I walk in, I’m in the office at 7:30 and I make a list of everything that I have to do, I number and letter everything by category, and then I literally take a printout of a daily calendar that’s cut out into 15 minute segments and I use a red pencil and I fill it in. So I make sure that I’m getting everything done in that time so that that provides me a huge, puts my mind at ease, knowing that I don’t have to worry about things that I need to get done because I know that there’s a system that I can rely on that I’ve put in place. So that really helps me get everything done in a way that I know is getting done and know that I’m serving my clients well and not letting anything slip through the cracks. I don’t know if that answered your question but.. 

Hal Coopersmith: It certainly did. I definitely want that system. You mentioned boxing. Have you ever had to use boxing physically in real estate? 

Josh Berger: So I would say not quite, but there are other ways that I have seen certain similarities. I think one of the nice things about having a well rounded perspective and doing a lot of different types of things is that I’ve noticed certain themes that are true, whether it be through art or boxing or music or brokerage. One of the things we talked about already, which was discipline, but there are a few different elements. One, let’s call it from a philosophical angle, let’s call it alignment, right? And so if you’re boxing for those of us who don’t box, I’ll explain why your feet and your hands and your shoulders and your hips and your breathing all need to go in unison. If you can’t figure out how to align those things, it’s going to be very challenging to create a strategy that you can create and then execute on a game plan on how to look at your opponent’s weaknesses and strengths and say, how do I do this? Right? So it’s the same thing with brokerage in terms of being aligned, right? If you can’t align. Even just let’s say the client side where you have CEO, a CTO, HR, and then you have the other side of the deal, the broker, the landlord, and then you have architects, engineers, and everyone. If you can’t create alignment and have a goal altogether, you can’t create a strategy that’s going to be effective. And with artists it’s the same thing. If you’re not aligned in terms of your concept and how you want to execute that concept in a real way, it’s going to be challenging to bring that idea into reality. Which again, what is an idea if it’s not brought into reality, right? It’s just this conceptual thing. 

Hal Coopersmith: And you mentioned the art that you do. I looked up some of it. You’re very much against social media. 

Josh Berger: So when I first started creating art, it was a big push into antisocial media because I really genuinely feel that if people solely interact with their friends, through social media, it creates a lack of human connection. The end of the day, human beings are tribal beings, right? And if you don’t spend time with people, if you don’t share that energy, you become cut off. And that’s when, you know, depression starts to seep in and there are different elements that can really become harmful. There was a stencil that I was working with that said stop selfies. Right? And it’s not a hatred against selfies. It’s not saying, hey, don’t, don’t take a picture of yourself. What it is is more if you’re in an environment with your people and with your friends, with your family, don’t remove yourself in order to take that picture. Right. Enjoy what you’re around. Enjoy what you’re with. Yeah. I did an art show a couple of years ago to benefit, the Lower East Side Girls Club and I had a pretty dark installation. It was called Selfie Suicide. It was a character that was wrapped in caution tape and was committing suicide and taking a selfie with it. And it was kind of a little bit saying, you know, if we keep removing ourselves from reality and then we keep interacting in this nonhuman way, the last thing that people will see will be you taking a selfie of you taking your own life. And it’s really an unhealthy and not a beneficial way in my opinion, to interact with reality. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, as long as you’re not against podcasts, we can be friends. 

Josh Berger: About that.. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, you’re on one right now. I have to say that. But you certainly do have perspectives on brokers using media and social media. 

Josh Berger: Absolutely. When it comes to sharing ideas or to helping people, I’m absolutely for social media. I think there are benefits. The challenge is when it becomes the thing that takes over and it becomes the only thing. A platform like this where you know you’re providing helpful information to brokers or CEOs or companies or whatever it might be. I think that’s great. And I think that if that communication is effective and if the people that are talking are experts on a subject matter, it can be really helpful and really beneficial to a lot of people. 

Hal Coopersmith: How can brokers use social media more effectively in your opinion? And what mistakes are brokers making? 

Josh Berger: Number one is over over communicating on social media. People are just so overwhelmed with information that if you’re a broker and you’re posting on LinkedIn or Facebook or Instagram or whatever, six, eight, ten times a week, it gets overwhelming. And I think people just become bombarded with information. And what the goal is, is to be, hey, I’m here, hey, I’m here. But when it’s too much, I can tell you personally when that happens, I just mute or hide those people because it’s just absolutely too much. Another mistake is when they only use it for marketing purposes, right? When they’re just like, hey, I’m representing the sublease or I’m representing this building, come look at my space. Right? That’s not really what people want to see in social media. I think people want to see content that’s relevant to them and that’s helpful. So you know, for me, I’ll post things that relate to sales, how you can be more effective in sales or how I’ve had more success in sales. I tend to also enjoy doing, I do like a weekly quote. So another way that I’m organized, every Monday morning I have a whiteboard and I go through and I write all my deals that I’m working on and color code them by where they are in their process and I write all the things that I need to get done that week for those deals. And I always put a quote there at the top of the board, this week the quote that I had up there is a quote that I found really relevant and it’s from Washington Irving. Little minds are tamed and subdued by misfortune, but great minds rise above them, right? And so is that something that by me sharing, I feel that could be inspirational to people who might be facing a challenge this week. And I know that we all face our challenges. You know, and this is one of the biggest fallacies I think of quote unquote success, is people look at somebody who’s had some success and say they’ve made it. This is successful. What they don’t realize that this is a constant focus and a constant battle where you need to consciously be aware of what it takes to be successful. And you wake up every day and you need to make that decision. Nobody wakes up who’s successful and says, okay, now I made it and it’s done. No, it’s that battle and it’s that fight. And it’s that vigor that makes you successful. 

Hal Coopersmith: And defining what it means to be successful. 

Josh Berger: Absolutely. Well that’s, that’s also super important. You know, a lot of people define success by money. That’s not always the case. Right? And so it’s a very good point because some people find success. I have a friend who’s an artist who’s a successful artist from a financial standpoint, and he turned to me the other week and he said, you know, I might just move to Europe and just close myself off and just paint cause that’s all I want to do. I don’t want the money. Right. So to him, that’s what success would be. And actually one of my, I’m not a very big fortune cookie fan in terms of the quotes they have on there. 

Hal Coopersmith: What about the cookies? 

Josh Berger: The cookies? I like cookies. I mean, I’ll be honest with you. Pretty much any type of cookie. But I do have one fortune cookie quote that I stuck to my computer screen and it says success is an accumulation of successful days. Right. And I love that because it enables people to look and say, hey, whatever happened yesterday, that’s fine. I’m going to wake up this morning. And for me personally, I meditate for 10 minutes in the morning just to clear my thoughts and get started on an even keel. Not a long crazy meditation, but it helps me just avoid that thought spiral of negativity, right? Everyone has it. It’s a human condition. And so if you have the ability to approach every day and say, hey, I’m going to be the best Josh I can be today, you know, every interaction that I have, I’m going to make meaningful. I’m going to connect with people. That’s where fulfillment really comes from. And so if you’re able to do that, to me that’s what success kind of is. It’s not only monetary and it’s not only financial. Now, yes. Do you need to be able to pay your bills? And if you like going on vacation and you need to be able to afford that, or you want to have a family and that costs money, yes, that relates to it. But to me, you need to have balance, right? You need to make equal time for your work, for your friends, for your family, for your hobbies, and without that you can become unbalanced. And then that fulfillment and that success is pretty unattainable. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, that’s a phenomenal outlook on life. Do you have any outlook on the marketplace that you want to share? 

Josh Berger: Yes, I do. We are in a very interesting place in the market. It’s no secret that we’ve reached a peak in the market in terms of pricing. And you’re already seeing that just as it relates to concessions that landlords are offering. The prices aren’t coming down yet, but the free rent packages and the tenant improvement allowance packages are just absolutely through the roof. I just finished a renewal for a client full floor on Fifth Avenue, a very strong company and on a tenured lease we got 12 months of free rent. It’s tremendous. A 10% discount. Additionally, we also got him a full other year’s worth of money to refurbish a space. And if he didn’t use it, he could convert it to free rent. Now, this is a unique circumstance that doesn’t happen every time, but the point is that the landlord was reaching because he didn’t want to lose the tenant. And so what I think you’re seeing is that a lot of tenants are what we call buying up the rent. So they need to show a higher face rent, so they’re giving a lot more free rent. To me, that’s an indication that we’re reaching the peak of the market. Also, what people do tend to ignore is the fact that companies can only survive by paying a certain percentage of their income on rent. So rents cannot go up indefinitely. It’s not possible. And we’ve reached a point where it’s becoming unaffordable for a lot of companies to have office space in Manhattan. I mean if you look at the super top end of the market with Hudson Yards and all these kinds of things, those deals are happening, but that’s really not even 10% of the market, right? You’re talking about an office space market of 550 million square feet in New York, and you’re talking about the bulk of the leasing 60% of the leasing happens between five and 20,000 square feet. Right? And so the big news that you hear in all the Facebook deals and the Apple deals and the Amazon deals, while it’s great news, it’s not really reflective of the actual market. In my experience, what I will say though is the whole WeWork effect has had a dramatic impact on the market, but not in the way that most people think that it has, I’m going to say WeWork is the largest occupier of office space in Manhattan right now, which is a complete travesty given the fact that they don’t actually occupy any space, right? They lease the space and then they put it back on the market. So what I call it, phantom leasing, right? Where it’s nothing actually leaving the market. So what happened is in the last three years when they’ve really ramped up their leasing, they’ve gobbled up a lot of those smaller floor plates and so that created a significant decrease in supply, which increased the prices. Obviously basic economics. What we’re going to see in the next probably 12 to 24 months, is a lot of those spaces coming back on the market. Is there a need for coworking space? Absolutely. Is there 25 million square feet worth of need in Manhattan? No, and if WeWork alone occupies 8 million square feet of the shared space, then they have about 20 competitors that occupy at least that if not more in combination. Right. And so you’re going to start seeing these spaces come back on the market. It will be a little bit slower because WeWork’s new theory is that they’re going to create a service out of WeWork, which is they’re going to default on their leases and then they’re going to pitch their services to landlords saying, hey, we’ll run this space as a coworking space. Which is a good theory, but the problem is, there’s not nearly enough demand to meet that supply. And so those spaces are going to start coming back on the market, which I think will affect, prices softening. But I don’t think it’s going to be all at once. I think it will trickle in and obviously the stock market will have an effect as well. 

Hal Coopersmith: Anything else you wanna talk about? 

Josh Berger: You know, for me it’s been really nice to chat with you. I think it’s been a nice opportunity for me to touch on a few different ways that I see brokerage. You know, one of the things that I think could be beneficial for people listening is just the concept that the human body is important to consider in general. And what I mean by this is brokerage, art, boxing, marketing, media, tech. These are all very high stress environments and it’s important to understand that the body has physical reactions and responses to stress. It’s an increased heart rate, it’s shallower breathing. And what ends up happening is there’s a decrease of flow to have oxygen to the brain, which actually makes it more difficult to process and to be the best you that you can be. And so this is something that I practice with my guys every single week in our brokerage development program where you do a short breathing exercise that can help bring your stress levels down and enable you to be your best self. It takes a total of about sixty three seconds where you breathe in for six seconds, you hold your breath for seven seconds and then you breathe out for eight seconds. And if you do that three times in a row, yes, if you can do it for longer, great. But if you can do that alone for three times in a row, you’d be shocked and amazed about how your shoulders relax. You feel more comfortable in your skin, you don’t feel as much pressure. And so that’s something that I hope that everyone can maybe inculcate for themselves in having a little more, a little bit more control. When you have that anxiety coming on or when you have that stress coming on to know that you can affect that a little bit and have some control over that. 

Hal Coopersmith: Well, you showed me how to do it. We did it before this interview, and I think it’s great advice. We always ask one piece of advice for real estate brokers, but let’s make that the piece of advice. It’s phenomenal. Josh Berger, thank you for being on the Broker’s Angle. 

Josh Berger: My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me.

Hal Coopersmith: That wraps up our interview with Josh Berger. For more visit brokersangle.com or follow us on social media @brokersangle and please feel free to email us at angle@brokersangle.com