In this episode of Brokers Angle, Hal Coopersmith sits down with Benjamin Schanzer of Norman Bobrow to talk about making the leap from retail to office leasing, the realities of cold calling, and why brokerage is ultimately a people business. Benjamin shares how mentorship, market knowledge, patience, and genuine connection shape successful deals, and why setting expectations early is everything. A candid conversation on growth, grit, and what it really takes to build a lasting career in commercial real estate.

Transcript

Hal Coopersmith: Welcome to Brokers Angle. I’m Hal Coopersmith. In this episode, we are speaking to Benjamin Schanzer of Norman Bobrow. Welcome Benjamin.

Benjamin Schanzer: Thank you for having me Hal.

Hal Coopersmith: So you are an office broker now, but you started in retail?

Benjamin Schanzer: Started in retail. It’s where I sort of cut my teeth.

Hal Coopersmith: How come you made that switch?

Benjamin Schanzer: Well, it was, more so that I was a personal friend of Jacob’s before who was on a previous episode. Mentioned episode 24, I believe. Great. Listen. Recommended to all.

Hal Coopersmith: Great callback.

Benjamin Schanzer: Thank you. I’m an avid listener. He himself was doing a lot of business and was looking for a new associate. I myself was at a specific firm that was a little newer, a little less experienced, didn’t have necessarily a mentorship program or anything there, or a principal that I can really rely on for any stage advice. So it kind of came a time where it was time for me to move on from there. I spent almost three years there and it was just a new chapter in life, new opportunity and more room for personal growth, both in terms of commissions, but also just in terms of knowledge, which is, you know, I’m always thirsty for more. And so, Jacob and I partnered up. It’s been about eight months now and I can confidently say it’s been the beginning of something beautiful.

Hal Coopersmith: Well, that is fantastic to hear. What knowledge could you take from retail to office, and what was kind of a new experience for you?

Benjamin Schanzer: So initially I thought it was going to be a very similar beast, but it turns out it’s a completely different game. Retail commissions, retail negotiation tactics, all these things, and especially the clientele base are completely different. There’s general ideas that you can carry over that are quite basic, but the nitty gritty is a totally different animal, whether it’s speaking to a retail customer who oftentimes are window shoppers, somebody that wanted to open up a flower shop, a cafe, things like that. They’re not as established as somebody who’s looking for a Midtown office space and I want to open a cafe and sell my croissants, I can’t do it. There goes that dream versus a law firm, we need 7,000 square feet for our tenants, and we were going to get it. So the difference there was a lot of leads and tours and time spent with customers that led to nothing simply because they didn’t understand what it takes versus now leads and tours that transact a lot more. And it’s a much more sophisticated client base in a sense, at least based on what I was working on, which were smaller retail as effectively a nothing broker.

Hal Coopersmith: Right. So there’s a difference between small retail, larger office and anything else in terms of understanding kind of the office market, sort of maybe items of additional rent, something like that?

Benjamin Schanzer: So I guess, again, to harken back to the retail days, to the office days, is that everything here is neighborhood specific, as is any, you know, real estate transaction here. SoHo retail and SoHo office as well are going to be far more expensive than anything in the garment district, just based on foot traffic and quality, honestly. So that was something that I can carry over and understand just what areas are nice, where do people want to be? But it was, definitely, a learning experience, which clientele base, what kind of businesses exist in which areas, as well as the asking rents are totally different for office space than they are for retail. But with retail, everyone wants free rent, obviously, but no landlord is going to do the build out themselves really. So that’s something that as a tenant, we had to prepare them for saying, are you financially ready to make this investment in your business. Compared to, which was a pleasant surprise for me to learn with office space is the landlords are expected to kind of carry that cost, and it’s a lot easier to tell a tenant now. What do you want? The landlord will get it done for you, versus the other way around where the landlord will give you maybe three months of free rent. Hope you can stomach the cost and put inventing to make your restaurant.

And I mean, free rent. We can still get. Build outs we still get for office space, for retail, it was a battle every single time just to get them to accept somebody, and it’s been a much more friendly experience, I’d say, on all sides, on the office space. Between landlords, between tenants and between brokers. Everyone’s a lot more willing to play ball with each other. And not that it’s a walk in the park still has its challenges, obviously, if it was easy, everyone would do it, but it’s been very refreshing to just not had venom spit on me over the phone. Every time I call somebody, even other brokers, everyone’s getting paid together. So we’re all trying to help each other out and it’s been a lot different in the sense that, I feel more free to not have to pussyfoot around anybody or be a little deceptive in the sense that I can’t give you the details of my business because you’ll know what it is. I can just say it’s a tech firm, it’s AI, it’s law, it’s whatever it is, versus if I describe my tenant and I don’t have an exclusive that I could present to the other broker, if I give away too much detail, uh-oh, they’re gone.

In the office sector. Landlord rep gets their commission, tenant rep gets their commission. So everyone’s happy. We make their lives easier. They make our lives easier. And let’s do business. Let’s all celebrate. Retail is one commission split down the middle. So naturally, the person who represents the space is going to try finding the tenant themselves. They’re going to edge out every other broker they can so they can get their full commission. I can’t fault them for it. I did it myself as well when I represented a space, but it inherently just creates a much more defensive broker that you’re dealing with on the other end. And so it’s been a very pleasant transition, learning experience nonetheless, but definitely something that I feel a lot less, I guess, beaten up at the end of the day.

Hal Coopersmith: So let’s talk about what you said. If it were easy, everyone else, would do it. What motivated you to become a broker and what interested you in the field?

Benjamin Schanzer: So, I’ll be honest, I didn’t see myself becoming a broker necessarily. I guess I always had the gift of gab as I’ve been told. A high school teacher told me I could sell hell to the devil. I thought, all right, that might be something, you know, I didn’t, my father was a lawyer, attorney and he always wanted me to follow a suit but I can’t sit and read documents like you can now. I’m sorry. So that wasn’t for me. But, I did see he eventually shifted into brokerage himself, noticed how that was, his hours were a little bit more manageable, at least as a child. My lifestyle didn’t changed too much, so I thought must be going pretty well. And then I graduate college. COVID hits. I just finished school as it had hit, so wasn’t sure what I wanted to do, was majoring in economics. Didn’t want to be a finance guy. I ended up getting a call from a family friend saying, Hey, listen, I do loan origination. I’m looking for somebody to help me out. I know you’re looking for work. Is it something that would interest you? And we spoke for about a half hour. I said, honestly, not so much. I think just based off of vibe, honestly, real estate might be more for me. Says I have a friend, he does warehouse development in rural New Jersey. Give him a call.

Spoke to him. He’s three years older than me, and he worked at a different firm before, went off to start on his own. And I was there for about six months, starting in that field. I show up the first day in a suit and tie much like I did. Now he answers the door in shorts and a t-shirt. He goes, oh yeah, my bad. I should have told you tomorrow wear whatever you want. I said, okay. So it was a lot more casual in that way, but my job there was. Going on Google Maps on satellite view, looking for empty farmland. Then cross-referencing it with the master plan and the zoning map of the township in New Jersey. Is it zoned as is right for industrial. Okay. Calling up this soybean farmer. Listen, we want to build a distribution center, an 800,000 square foot warehouse on your farmland. Would you be interested in selling it to us? So it was very cold, cold calling to non-real estate people, farmers, man of the land in small town New Jersey, where we got just pushback from the township because they don’t want trucks and you know, massive development going up in their town. They want to keep their town a nice small town. Jersey has basically transitioned from the garden state to the warehouse state. So I did that for about seven, eight months. Then the issue there is that any deal takes five to seven years because you need to buy the land. You then need to convince the township to approve of your development, and then you need to develop it, and then only then do you actually start to get money once somebody rents it or you sell off the development.

So it was a good learning experience in that sense. I learned how to make calls to people that wanted nothing to do with me. And then, you know, I learned about variances, zoning rights, things like that. And then eventually I needed something a little more transactional, and that’s where I initially ended up in my original firm, which was a small firm. I was one of the first hires. It was a completely young operation. No real leadership, in the sense of no established principal who had been in business, who worked at a different firm and started zone, we were all guys in our early to mid-twenties with no real, real estate experience. I got connected to through them, through I guess my stepbrother now his friend had just done administrative work for them, so we’re looking for somebody in real estate. So I got on a call, I spoke to them. It worked out. I got my brokerage license. I started doing it and it was sort of just get up and go, figure it out, make a call, get a listing, get a tenant, close a deal, and my initial role there was just trying to onboard listings, calling landlords with either. Stale listings from other brokers that have been represented for over a year and a half. So their exclusive agreement had definitely expired, or self-represented listings by landlords and just saying, listen, we represent your space for you. We’re masters of marketing. We’ll send it across our whole database of everybody. And initially there was nobody there. I was selling them snake oil effectively.

There was no real product for me to, or proof for me to say, here we’ve done these leases, we have all these people, but after a month or two it really started to build up and there I can reference actual requirements and there I can reference actual leases. We did. And so throughout making probably about 60 calls a day, realistically on average, I was able to develop and hone my craft of,

what does a landlord want to hear? What kind of tenant fits this place? Who should they expect? And then on the other side, what should the tenant expect from the landlord? And that really gave me a lot of insight as to, you know, who’s doing what and where and how they’re getting buy in doing it. And I was able to tap into a certain wealth of knowledge that I’ve just acquired over years and being generally interested. Random topics. So to the point where if I meet with someone, I feel pretty confident that I can, more or less, for lack of a better term, shoot the shit with them. And I think that really is valuable in a broker, no matter the industry, to connect with somebody. It’s a people’s game. And so when you can connect with the tenant, it makes it so much easier. They want to engage with you. They want to see office space with you because it doesn’t even feel like a tour. Hey, we’re, we’re hanging out, you know? And that really translated to office as well. But that’s sort of how I was able to cut my teeth there in brokerage. And then I realized relatively quickly, I feel like I can make a career out of this.

It was initially, let me see how it feels as it was with the warehousing. This one felt a lot better. It was more transactional, was able to actually make some money, which is at the end of the day, what’s the key about it? But I guess, you know, if it was easy, everyone could do it. Right? Going back to that, being able to a, know the market, you can learn that fine, but I think it’s knowing the people that that really is something that sometimes is lost, especially on brokers. It’s easy to know your craft, but they don’t know it. So when I’m trying to explain to somebody the ins and outs of office leasing now, and they have no idea what I’m talking about, or they have all these preconceived notions that I sort of have to dispel and be like, listen, here’s where it is. It takes a certain patience, I guess, and I’m sure you’re familiar with this as well, when you’re dealing with clients negotiating leases or anything, it’s very. Come and, Hey, no, so here’s actually how it works, and things like that, which I feel like, especially seasoned veterans of the business might be a little less patience now, a less, a little less patient. I just want to get it done. Why aren’t you on my understanding level? And, I think the humanity being able to connect with people, telling them, and holding their hand throughout this process. Is really, really, really paramount in getting anything done. The numbers could all be right, but the person handling it is wrong and it falls apart. So I felt not uniquely qualified per se, but just capable of being able to be there for my customer and just making sure that this deal went well, that they felt taken care of, that they feel confident in the future, that they can use me again, things like that to return business to myself, felt able to do it. And so I ran with that. Almost four years later, we’re going strong.

Hal Coopersmith: So when you are talking to someone and trying to explain, these are the ins and outs of brokerage for office, what are some of the things that you highlight?

Benjamin Schanzer: More so, I like to speak in generalities to an extent. Here’s what the market’s doing at large. Here’s what landlords mentality is thinking right now. Here’s the feedback we’ve been getting when we put in offers, just to sort of set expectations of what you can get and here’s what you really should be looking for, and also understanding their business sometimes even better than they do themselves, at least when it comes to understanding what they’re looking for. I would never really suggest for a law firm per se, to go into the garment district, it wouldn’t make sense for them. It’s not the right fit. Or honestly, depending on the firm or how many people, they shouldn’t be in a SoHo loft. It’s not the right environment for them. They need office intensive. They need a little bit more of a, I guess, some vanity fair around them and the proper attire on the block versus fashionista’s wallet on by, and just to sort of help them really feel confident. And the fact that I know my shit and that you should trust me because I’m a young face and I know that. And it’s tough for when somebody’s 15, 20 years my senior to put their office in my hands. Sometimes a multimillion dollar commitment and they want to make sure that they have the right person taking care of them. So it’s very important for me in the beginning to say, you know, here’s what you need to be looking for and here’s what to expect because what you want versus what you can get are two very different things.

And so I think setting expectations early. Is incredibly important, especially as you get further into the lease and the negotiations and new things pop up. I’d rather get the ugly out of the way in the beginning. This might happen. Just expect this. If it does, here’s how we can pivot versus when it happens and now you know, they’re running around like their hair is on fire and they’re terrified. I’d rather be transparent and upfront with everybody so that we get all the dirty laundry out of the way first. And from there it’s smooth sailing ideally. But for the most part, that’s what I would always want to start off new office tenants with or you’d be surprised how many people. It’s their fifth lease, and every time it’s like a brand new experience. A, the market changes, so what you can get is different, but b, it’s not their job to think of office space and what they can get. And so once they sign their lease, it’s out of their brain and it’s, I guess, our job to reeducate them in a patient manner where they feel confident upon lease signing.

Hal Coopersmith: What are you doing in terms of finding the right people who mesh well with your approach?

Benjamin Schanzer: So, I would reckon my approach is very flexible. I don’t have, there’s no one formula. I can’t just do the same thing over and over again. You know, we’re all snowflakes, everyone’s unique, every office, every landlord, every direct, landlord, rep, broker, and every tenant. So my approach is really just find a way to connect with somebody, and I want them to feel comfortable and confident in just spending time with me, but also not giving off the, I’m just your buddy. I want them to know. I know my shit. I want them to know I’ll get them the best deal. And so if you’re an old school guy and a little more stern, I’ll chat you up. But not in a flirt, I guess. Yeah. It’s flirting. It’s all flirting in a way, I guess. So an old school fella. I’ll talk about things I know, maybe it’s history, maybe it’s the music of their childhood, whatever it is. Just a way to ingratiate myself with them and really just build a level of familiarity while also sneaking in, Hey, here’s a little history effect, or here’s something about the office, just so when they leave the tour with me, or a phone call with me. Some little bug in their brain that, you know, there’s a building downtown. I always have a stat about it or a little fact about the history of when it was being built. And every time they pass it, they just say, you know, every time I pass that building, I think of you. Scored

Hal Coopersmith: So you talked about in your experience, you were the coldest of cold calls. Calling people who had no expectation that you would be calling them to purchase their land. Potentially. What did you learn about cold calling? Any tips that you can share? Because it seems like that is truly being thrown into the fire at a very young age.

Benjamin Schanzer: Absolutely. So the key there. Is to be partly insane, maybe partly stupid in the sense that I’m going to be told, no, don’t ever call me how I do all these nasty things that people might say to you on the phone, even not nasty, but every situation is a completely fresh phone call and you can’t carry over any success or failure from the phone call before into the next. You are starting from scratch every time, and it requires a certain amount. I think Jacob referred to it as mental fortitude. I’ll refer to it as mental insanity, where you expect a new result from the same thing every single time, but you can’t carry in any negativity. You always have to be fresh as a daisy on the phone. Happy. I mean, I was smiling on the phone even though just to make my voice a little more friendly, you know? Hey, how are you? Joslyn? I have a question for you. It’s an interesting proposition. Take a moment of your time, and sometimes it would just be lose this number. If you call me again, I’m going to file the FBI and it’s an empty threat, but a threat nonetheless, or the excitement is infectious and people take the call, but it’s really just, every single opportunity is a brand new start. It’s in a vacuum every time and you just need to fill it with positive energy. You can’t be tired from, because it’s your hundredth call and you know that they’re going to say no and you go, oh, you’re looking for space and you can’t do that. It has to be that you’re the first person I spoke to all day. It’s 8:00 PM and I’ve been making calls for 12 hours and I’m sorry to bother you at dinner time, but I just came up with this idea, whatever it is to really project the idea of positivity and freshness and that each call is its own reality and each person has their own approach, which you have to figure out once they give you a little feedback and respond to you. But it’s always brand spanking new every time.

Hal Coopersmith: Are you still doing cold calls?

Benjamin Schanzer: Not as much. Now it’s really more so cold emails, but the cold call is still effective occasionally. Goes in tandem. Hey, I sent you an email. I want you to see it. Listen, I don’t know if you’re looking for space right now, but something interesting came up and then most of the time you’re speaking to the wrong person they’ll patch you through. But the calls, they really, unfortunately, are so necessary. I’d love to say I’m never doing another cold call in my life, but you got to do it, you got to do the work.

Hal Coopersmith: Right. And it’s so hard to not carry it over to the next phone call.

Benjamin Schanzer: Yeah. And just give yourself a minute after the call, you hung up, someone said something mean to you. Hang up, take a breath, maybe a lap, dial up the next person, give them a ring. Yeah. And then it’s fresh again. Hi me. Who are you? Don’t worry. We’re best friends from this point on. And then you carry on from there.

Hal Coopersmith: You are young yourself, but you are experienced in starting in the industry. One of the things that we like to talk about is what advice would you give paying it forward to younger brokers, what advice would you share?

Benjamin Schanzer: So I’ve even had the unique opportunity of having a few interns in my four years. And so it’s always fun to bring people on who are completely inundated with the business and sort of telling them the lessons I’ve learned and again, mentioning cold calling and reaching out. Every opportunity is fresh, but also sort of how to present yourself, how to make yourself stand out, what you could use. You know, we’re all dealt a different hand in life. You can’t control the cards you get, but you can control how you play them. And I told every single person I’ve met that’s starting, whatever you’ve got, use it.

That’s it. Whatever your advantage is. Don’t feel too prideful to say, I know my family friend has this office space and you know, I’m the nobody, I shouldn’t ask for. You know that person at looking for office space, but you guys need more office space. You good? Okay. I have to ask everyone I meet. Right? And if you know anyone, ask them that if you speak multiple languages, attack the people in the language you speak. Whatever it is, just use any sort of advantage you could get.

Stay organized. Organization is the biggest thing in this industry. I think so many deals can die just ’cause I lost track of an email or you don’t exactly know what they’re looking for, your client so that when you send them space. You’re sending them something that they’re not going to spend time on, and then you lose a response and it allows you to really keep track. I know that this person’s lease is ending then, or I spoke to this person, they said X, Y, and Z. I can refer back to it now based on notes. Having a good memory is also very, very, very important. I actually bumped into Ryan Serhant recently at a restaurant, and he and I were co-stars back in the day. As a matter of fact.  he had a spinoff show for Million Dollar Listing. Sell like Serhant, it was called, and he ended up doing an episode on commercial real estate and they ended up using my father’s firm for industrial in Westchester, and I was 18. Not in the business. My dad says, put on a suit, come to my office, you’ll be in the scene. Said, okay. Reality television is not real, by the way. It’s all scripted for the most part. I was very sad to learn that. But the plot was that Ryan teaches salesman of all different industries how to be a good salesman from what he’s learned as a broker.

So he helped. The episode was single Mother Lisa. She’s struggling as a broker. Ryan’s going to show her the way that was nine years ago. I see Ryan a week and a half ago and I mentioned, oh, you know, I was in that episode of selling like Serhant. And he goes like, how’s Lisa doing? I don’t know how in the hell he remembered that, but it’s things like that, right Where you could just tap into it and remember this one thing that he spent a week doing in 2017, it’s so valuable to be able to just remember a detail in a conversation, you know, oh, this person has a dog, their daughter’s graduating in college. Anything like that that you could refer back to, it just, it lets the person you’re speaking to know that you care. You paid attention and they really appreciate that. So organization in that regard is so handy. If I could just refer back to quick notes,

And presentation. I think presentation goes a long way. I mean, attire, I’m a slave to appearances, but I think if you’re to be looking for office space and you’re a serious person who has a large requirement in a real company that pulls in real cash and your broker shows up and a t-shirt, Lululemon pants and on cloud white sneakers, it gives off a certain impression and I think it goes a long way. You know, clean look, straightforward demeanor, well dressed firm handshake, things like that. I think just, I guess I have, a little old school mentality in that way, but it works, I guess so. I like to keep going with it.

Hal Coopersmith: What are you doing for note organization?

Benjamin Schanzer: So it’s really just, we have a CRM that we use, which is nothing too special, but just let me keep track, set a date reminder to reach out to this person. Last time and every phone call, I had spoke to them on the fifth. They said, call me on Monday. Call back Monday. Or they said we we’re not looking for another year and a half. That means I’m calling back in about a year just to give us some time. And it’s alerts and I just check on it every day. Here’s what I have to look for, here’s what I have to do, and I just keep every single detail I can get. You know, where are they? How much longer, how much space, any individual thing that stuck out in the conversation that I can just refer back to. Not like I’m going to read it off like a script, but should it come up, I can ask a question, Hey, how’s this going on? And it really is appreciated. I found.

Hal Coopersmith: That is a wonderful note to end things on. Thank you for being a part of Broker’s Angle.

Benjamin Schanzer: Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure.